Bill Mounce Responds To Mark Strauss
Posted by BryanNov 25
In his latest roundup of ETS, Dr. Bill Mounce has responded to Dr. Mark Strauss’ paper entitled “Why the English Standard Version Should Not Become the Standard English Version: How to Make a Good Translation Much Better.” Dr. Mounce is the New Testament Chair for the ESV and a friend of Dr. Strauss. As I was reading his reaction to the paper, I couldn’t help but have a few questions.
Now I, and the three people who read my blog would agree, am certainly not a scholar. I realize that what I say on this subject would not even register on the english translation richter scale (ETRS™). However, I do have a vested interest in the discussion. I once was very anti-TNIV and a huge proponent of the ESV. This was mostly due to me parroting the arguments made by others, and had very little to do with actual research on my part. In the past few years, I have come to be ok with the TNIV, then like the TNIV, then use it as one of my main translations. Rick Mansfield, my elementary Greek professor, had no small part to play in this (apologies, Rick, for connecting your name to mine!). That being said, I also use the ESV as one of my main translations. It is, after-all, possible to use both.
I am a big fan of Dr. Mounce. I enjoy reading his submissions to the koinonia blog as well as his other writings. But there are two specific points in his post that I want to comment on.
1. “He kept saying that the ESV has “missed” or “not considered” certain translational issues. While I am sure they were not intentional, these are emotionally charged words that do not help in the debate. They are in essence ad hominem arguments focusing on our competence (or perceived lack thereof) and not on the facts.”
Dr. Mounce acknowledged that there has been hurt on both sides, and their absolutely has. And certainly, some of Dr. Strauss’ comments had some emotionally charged rhetoric (though I do believe his points were valid). However, it seems off to me to call out Dr. Strauss for this when certain proponents of the ESV have continually used emotionally charged language and ad hominem attacks, of an equal and sometimes much greater level. I am not saying it was wrong of Dr. Mounce to state what he did. I do think, that in so doing, he should have called out proponents of other translations for doing the same. To simply boomerang the debate back to the other side is just as unhelpful. I think more people need to take a mediating position and attempt to cool the rhetoric. That’s not to say they should walk on eggshells for the translation they dislike, but certainly there is a lot of fluff rhetoric that can be cut out on both sides.
2. “The inside story of the ESV and specifically our translation guidelines have never been told.”
Honestly, I believe these facts are part of the problem. The story and guidelines are the very things that need to be told. Otherwise, rumors such as a translation being done to subvert gender roles (TNIV) or a translation being done purely as a backlash against egalitarians (ESV) come about and persist. Are these rumors true? Is one true but not the other? I don’t know. The reason I don’t know is that there simply isn’t any transparency in the translation process. There are, however, many accusations flying both ways. Maybe some transparency in the translation process would better for the conversation as a whole. And not just with the ESV (though 8 years is certainly too long for the story to be told), but every translation. I for one want a translation whose purpose is to tell us what the text says, as much as is possible between languages where there is no 1:1 correspondence (and there are none that actually have this). What I don’t want, is propaganda for your particular theology. By you, I do not mean Dr. Mounce and the ESV team, but any and every translation committee.
But, maybe I’m the only one who thinks like this. Only time will tell how the people who actually know what they were doing will allow this conversation to affect the future of translations. Certainly, I have stepped outside my bounds of expertise in translation here, but I don’t believe I have in terms of our shared faith. Let there be more transparency, and more grace. We are brothers and sisters, united in one body. As one suffers, so do we all. Yet, as one is honored, so we all are also.





13 comments
Comment by Mike on November 25, 2008 at 1:57 am
Bryan,
All I can say is, “You’re right.”
Okay, maybe I can say more. For one, you’ve got a great elementary Greek prof. I like Rick a lot and he knows translations.
I also think you’re right on about the mystery behind the ESV, I had those exact same thoughts as you did in your point 2. The way translation is done needs to change. It needs to be more transparent (which is why I like the NET so much – its always been available for correction).
Pingback by Mounce Responds to Strauss « ΕΝ ΕΦΕΣΩ on November 25, 2008 at 2:09 am
[...] Bryan with a “y” has already provided some excellent comments on what Mounce has said. His thoughts are very similar to what I was thinking and since I don’t want to just repeat [...]
Comment by Brent on November 25, 2008 at 9:06 am
Well said and I wholeheartedly agree. I do not understand why we see these continued attempts to discredit a translation. We need to accept differences in translation philosophy. If a person does not like one particular philosophy, fine. I like more formal translations. But that does not mean I need to take a hatchet to the NLT and TNIV. They are good and useful. I just prefer more formal translations. As you said, and I will echo, we can use more than one translation!!! Further, we should use more than one translation so that through comparison and study we will accurate understand the scriptures.
The emotions need to be removed so that we can simply have discussions about translation differences, rather than try to destroy opponents in debate.
Comment by Bryan on November 25, 2008 at 9:16 am
Mike and Brent
Thank you for the comments! I would interact more, but I am about to leave and drive all day to go home for Thanksgiving.
Mike, as I was writing this, I too was thinking of the NET. Certainly translations could put a “NET” like version up on their site, or release a version of the translation… not ever edition has to have everything annoted or anything, but something that is accessible.
Comment by Scripture Zealot on November 25, 2008 at 1:15 pm
Mounce writes briefly about some of his experiences with the ESV committee in Greek For The Rest Of Us in which he talks about why translations are different. Like the publisher sitting in on the committee talking about how much money they just spent debating on a passage and how he often got overruled for the sake of tradition etc. They also didn’t take much time to complete the translation. I wonder if these are just some of the things he’s intimating.
Jeff
Comment by Wayne Leman on November 25, 2008 at 1:40 pm
Bryan, thank you for this post. I’ve been posting Mark Strauss’ paper at the Better Bibles Blog. It’s good to discuss how each English Bible version can be improved.
Pingback by Bill Mounce responds to Mark Strauss on ESV « Better Bibles Blog on November 25, 2008 at 4:53 pm
[...] And see also what Bryan has written in response, and Jeff’s comment there. This entry was written by Peter Kirk, posted on [...]
Comment by Bryan on November 25, 2008 at 6:22 pm
Jeff
If so, that would be really good. I really really do like Dr. Mounce. I just think some of what he says could be reflected back on the other side, but I don’t see any apologies coming anytime soon for slanderous language used. I do hope some of those things get told, but I feel like they should have been told a long time ago.
Wayne
Thanks for stopping by! I’m a big fan of yours and BBB. You all have helped my understanding of translating as much as my discussions with Rick. In fact, I think he pointed me to BB blog a while back.
Comment by Hannah on November 25, 2008 at 11:22 pm
the NET Bible was my first thought as well. Surely they [all translation teams] have reams and reams of translation notes available, and it’d be great to see even a greatly condensed version for our own edification. Not to mention, this would probably foster a good deal more leniency and graciousness in the conversation as a whole – more transparency typically means less suspicion and name-calling, which would be great all around.
Comment by Alex S. Leung on November 26, 2008 at 12:04 am
I heartily agree with what’s already been commented: there needs to be much more transparency in the translation process — we are certainly in the technologically-advanced 21st century!
My ESV Beef:
Personally, I would like to see all instances of “doulos” in the NT translated in the ESV as “slave” (like in the HCSB). I recall somebody on the ESV Translation team said they wrestled with this issue but settled in using “servant” often instead because of the modern stigma around slavery. Cf. MacArthur; TDNT. Doing a concordance/word study around “servant” in the ESV is just pointless for me, since I need to take note of all the instances of “servant” with footnote Or slave; Greek bondservant vs. “servant” without the footnote.
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